Martin vs. Spong on the John Ankerberg Show: Here is the rest, clips 9,10,11,12,13,14 and 15!

For those who have been waiting for the rest of the clips, finally!!!  The “ex-gay” guest who was invited later in the show gave a powerful and interesting testimony to say the least and though for many years I have taken a hard-line against Bishop Spong for him wanting to radically redefine Christian orthodoxy, I was glad he took the “church fathers”  to task like St.Jerome (a pure misogynist and proud of it) and John Chryssom (an anti-Semite and proud of it, condemned believers celebrating The Feast of Tabernacles in Jewish synagogues—so much for Jewish-Christian relations in the 4th century!). So there are some things I can share common ground with Bishop Spong but when it comes to the ressurection of Jesus Christ, I cannot in no way compromise that doctrine. I believe it was a literal ressurection from the dead and Jesus Christ’s body had new and amazing powers. Bill Maher may think I have built a wall on one side of my brain. Bishop Spong would call me a “fundamentalist” and would tell me to start believing in his interpretation of  “ressurection of our hearts”.  To me it is the literal ressurection of  Christ, or we should all either join another religion or at least be non-theistic. Yea, I am with CS Lewis all the way: either Jesus Christ was Lord, lunatic or liar. Christianity stands or falls on the ressurection of Christ and if one wants to call that fanatical, so be it.  I hope those will enjoy the following clips. I am interested in your comments about them.

 

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More Ankerberg: Walter Martin’s last debate with Bishop Spong!

Sorry James, no GTA this time but this is one of a debate from the late Walter Martin of the Christian Research Institute and liberal theologian and Episcopal priest John Shelby Spong in which they discuss the essentials of historic Christian faith and sexual ethics. I believe these clips are in 15 parts.  I am just going to put only one here and worry about the rest later. Those who have seen the GTA-John Ankerberg debates here this summer, will also like this debate here too. As a note, this debate was taped on June 24th, 1989 and two days later on the 26th, Dr.Walter Martin’s earthly course was finished and was in eternal communion with his God.

…also to make this clear, Bishop Spong is not related to my knowledge to former WCG minister Grant Spong.

Standing up to a heretic, cultist, false prophet and very likely a con-man with the truth!

When I say that Ron Weinland is a heretic and a cultist, it is not done out of the sadistic joy picking on him. Thank God he has also been proven a false prophet—he predicted the beginning of end time of events on the Passover season and thank God we’re still here and thank God for His mercy that He does not wish that anyone should perish—but should ALL come to repentence through the Gospel of Jesus Christ who came to save us from sin and death and to give all a precious opportunity to live with God forever. Waaay more positive news than Weinland’s gospel of gloom, doom and destruction and you better clean up your act because these things are going to happen. Gavin Rumney also argues that Weinland is also a con-man who have manipulated members into giving their money to for his livelihood and now his prophecies that have failed to materialize it will be probably a case of “so long suckers!”

The reason I label Ron Weinland a “non-Christian cultist” is that he denies that Jesus Christ is God and I know that religious pluralists are offended that I made such an assertion. I believe if a religious leader is claiming to be Christian, he must agree that Jesus Christ is God. Not a created being. Not just a great teacher. Not just an enlightened man of his day. He was God in the flesh. To believe opposite is simply not an option! Yes, this is not some Oprahized, touchy-feely political correctness that some want to hear but if a leader and his church want be called a “Christian church”, the divinity of Christ cannot be negotiated among other essentials. To worship on the Sabbath or the Lord’s Day—negotiable! Whether Christ died on Friday night or Wednesday night—negotiable! To keep the Lord’s Supper any weekend—or ONLY on the 14th of Nisan—or only on Good Friday/Easter Sunday—negotiable! For anyone to assert that Jesus Christ was not God in the flesh…Houston we have problem. Yes, I am very conservative when it comes to the essentials of historic Christian faith—this firm belief means I am in opposition to liberal theologians who oppose—not out of hate and spite (and I will have to admit there is a lot to learn from them but not on this issue, sorry)—but to preserve the foundations of Christianity. Some are offended (and some extremely angry) at that but in due time, I hope they will understand it is for a decidedly, intellectually thought through for very good reasons. Many of the cults who have rejected basic truths such as Christ’s divinity have become the most deadliest cults in which those who lost their lives. Oh yes people will protest and say, “What about the Catholics—they are trinitarians—and killed millions of people through the ages!!!” Decidedly, I will say, “No comparison.” By the way, they took responsiblity and apologized (unlike some cults or so-called “former” cults refuse to do!). Hold off you arguments. Wait until I get the chance to write the second part to “Why The Churches of God will NOT re-unite REDUX!” I will be getting very deeper on the issue of the Godhead.

Aside from my blather, my real purpose for this post is I thank God Almighty that people can come out of the kingdom of the cults and enter into the kingdom of Christ. There has been one lady by the grace of God that have been delivered from the dark and evil kingdom of Ron Weinland’s cult and is in a journey into the kingdom of Christ by reading the pages of her Bible without the literature of Weindland’s deceptive materials. Here is what she had to say,

I grew up in WCG. Listened to RW for awhile but he was twisting scriptures & he said Jesus had a beginning, among a long list of other false teachings. And he’s trapping people on the flypaper of old covenant. ‘To this day a veil covers their eyes when Moses is read.’ I have family in his church. It baffles me how they can believe RW. Don’t they research? Do they limit themselves to the few scriptures he supplies with his own personal false interpretations?

Any reasonable person can conclude to answer the last two questions is that the first question is a resounding NO and the second is sadly, unarguably YES! This lady who goes by the pseudonym of Seeker of Truth has set up a new blog, “As The Bereans Did” and has a post refuting the heretical nonsense of Ron Weinland when it comes to the deity of Christ. She does an excellent job of proving that through the Old Testament and New Testament Jesus Christ is God in the flesh and is in NO imaginable sense a created being.

As late Walter Martin author of Kindom of the Cultist said in his ending paragraph on the section of the historic Worldwide Church of God and Armstrongism,

Since “God is not the author of confusion” (1 Corinthians 14:33), there is one sure remedy to the problem of the spread of Armstrongism. Turn off the television and radio wherever it is promoted and open your Bible, for within its pages God is always broadcasting the eternal message of the Gospel of grace. A study of the essential doctrines necessary for solid growth in the Christian life can be found within its pages. When this supplemented by attendance in a truly Christian church where that gospel is preached, there is no need to listen the Hebert Armstrongs of our day, for as the psalmist so beautifully described it, “The entrance of they Word giveth light.”

I thank God that Seeker of Truth has just did that! May her blog last for a loong time as tool to bring many out of the dark,gloomy, evil darkness into His wondeful, joyous light!

Her blog and post is right here.

Also this man may have been controversial but he had a good segment on his show about the belief in the deity of Christ. The late Dr. James Kennedy examines proof that belief in Jesus Christ as God was solid in the early centuries of the church and was simply NOT an afterthought from the Council of Nicea in the 4th century AD.