Walter Martin on Annhilationism

On the post I just finished, I mentioned briefly the late great Walter Martin and linked a clip on youtube. Here I present a clip from The John Ankerberg Show, where Walter Martin is again Ankerberg’s guest where they discusses their problems with certain interpretations of scripture that would suggest annhilation of the wicked.  Since 2004, I have sided with Ankerberg and Martin about the spirit in man is conscious after death. Before that (approximately 1999-2004) , I was with Edward Fudge, who is an orthodox Christian but supports annhilationism in books like The Fire That Consumes and Two Views of Hell (I got that one). Well in my studies Hebrews 12:22-24 showed me something a little different (and very positive) for the believer. For the unbeliever, the person who has rejected God at every turn in his or her life, will be conscious after their material body is shed on earth but will face an eternal disfellowshipment from the love of God. While  Ankerberg and Martin leaned to the Western Church, Augustinian-Calvinist based thinking of hell, I lean to an Eastern Orthodox view of hell where it is more  The Phantom Zone (think Superman) than an eternal torture chamber.  I had an Facebook discussion with a staunch liberal Universalist who mocked the idea that Eastern Orthodox view of hell is more humane than the Western view. What is the old saying, “You can’t win ’em all!”

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5 thoughts on “Walter Martin on Annhilationism

  1. I have zero respect for Walter Martin, IMO. He completely dropped the ball, by taking the church out of “Kingdom of the Cults”, just because Junior and Weazell and Kelly the Snake, started spewing out the “right” doctrines the fundagelicals wanted to hear.

    1. Walter Martin died in 1989, 5 or 6 before the massive upheaval in Worldwide. It was Hank Hanegraaff’s doing of aligning with Joe Jr. and Mike. The rest is history…

      1. So what you’re saying is, Hank “Postal Fraudster” Hanegraaf whitewashed Kingdom of the Cults as well? Aaaauuugh! Why am I not surprised?

        In other news, guess what I managed to pick up at the DVD rental place’s going out of business sale recently? That’s right folks, the Purple Hymnal has finally watched Religulous. Oddly enough, there are only three (this number is important later on, pay attention) things I took away from the film, which I only paid $4 for, so not a bad return on investment, IMO.

        1. Thomas Jefferson wrote his own bible. The fact that said tome is, well, purple….speaks to me. Can’t imagine why. 😉

        (On a serious note there is a Gutenberg text for it. Plan on making my way through it soon.)

        2. The Roman Catholics believe in evolution, and the interview with the Catholic Priest (who was, most likely, burned at the stake by the Catholics for his interview, after the movie came out) was absolutely hysterical. Cognitive dissonance “to infinity…and beyond!” Quite literally. But as for the RCC believing in evolution? That, I did not know.

        3. (And here’s why the number three is kinda coincidental.) The fact that you saw this movie, Felix, and adored it (or that’s the impression you put across), and still remain a dyed-in-the-wool binitarian, shocks me, given the quite clear example of Christian trinitarianism that Florida Holy Land Jesus gave….I mean, I understood it, even though Ted Johnston’s erstwhile bleatings of, for, and by, trinitarians, sound like nothing more than Charlie Brown’s parents, in my head, and I’ve never been able to wrap my brain around trinitarianism until now!

        For the record, and for anyone who hasn’t seen the movie, Florida Holy Land Jesus gets called out by Bill Maher, the host of the documentary, on the “monotheistic religion with three deities schtick” that the church still cannot adequately explain.

        (Nor will they ever be able to, since none of them were ever steeped in enough of the “right” Christianity to be able to even begin to wrap their puny little under-used minds around it, no matter how many of the “right” professing Christians they listen to/read/otherwise mimic phonetically.)

        But let’s let Florida Holy Land Jesus explain trinitarianism: “It’s not three deities at all, the way you have to look at it is like water. Water can be steam, ice, or liquid. That’s three things. The (I forget if he said holy or not) trinity is the same.”

        It stumped Bill Maher, and he even said Florida Holy Land Jesus made a very good point with that. It certainly gave me a better appreciation of what some of the more liberal trinitarians might actually believe (given the long hair and wearing a dress job requirements, something tells me Florida Holy Land Jesus isn’t a fundagelical), and I actually, for the first time ever, understood what it was they’ve been bleating we were so “wrong” about in not accepting for all these years.

        Bible-beaters, don’t get too excited: I still don’t believe in trinitarianism, anymore than I believe in my former binitarianism. But at least I understand both, now, more clearly than I did before, thanks to that particular talking point/soundbite in the movie.

        I’m interested in hearing what your take is on that, Felix; it seems pretty straightforward to me.

        So, yeah, was it worth $4? I would say, just for point #3 alone, yes.

  2. Glad you enjoyed Religous as much as I did but there is one thing I don’t know where you got the notion. I am NOT a binitarian—I am a trinitarian! I have been pro-trinitarian since ’93 and never looked back. My pro-trinitarian biase goes back to some posts on April 28th and 29th. Read those posts to get my view right! 🙂

    1. Whoops, my bad! Must have been pre-93 posts on the old blog I read. I admit, I’ve read your blog in spots, Felix. 🙂 Will check out the posts you mention presently. Do check out the Jefferson Bible I linked to, above; for all his other faults, at least he managed to make the New Testament a hell of a lot more humane….which is more than can be said for some religionists, IMO!

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