Intelligent quote of the day


“So all atheists; all Sabbath breakers; all celebrators of Easter and Xmas; all despisers of the Holy Scriptures, by equating it with pagan writings, and haters of HWA will not be in God’s kingdom!”

Theres 99.999% of the world right there. Nice that you have shown a mass judgement to the entire world. Who put you in the place of God, Tom? Did God say HWA haters wouldn’t be in the Kingdom, or did you? Who gave you the right to make that judgement?

If Tom would look at 1 Corinthians 6, he would see that the Bible is clear about who will not inherit the Kingdom of God: Lets see. Immoral, idolaters, adulterers, theives, greedy people, drunks, slanderers, swindlers, to name a few. What you dont find here is emphasis on celebrators of easter, christmas, and “haters” of a man named Herbert Armstrong.

If Tom was God, his way of judging people’s entrance into the Kingdom is clear. “Did you keep Christmas? Did you Keep Easter? Did you accept HWA? Do you hate Herbert Armstrong? DO YOU?” Seriously, does one REALLY think that is God’s standard for admittance into his kingdom? That’s spiritually immature thinking. Tom is thinking like a pharisee, and doesn’t even recognize that he is thinking, acting, and speaking like a pharisee – in fact a pharisee of pharisees – focusing on the standards of traditions and law keeping, days, and the physical instead of focusing on the matters of the spiritual – which, if one does a good exegesis of the bible, and especially the book of John, was what Jesus was trying to do – get them to quit thinking in the manner of the physical, including traditions and days, and start looking at the reality of the spiritual, now that Christ had come.

Tom, I’m glad you don’t sit on the throne of God casting judgement on the world. With you in charge, no one would stand, and you would condemn without a second thought based on observances on days and seasons and years. But I don’t have to worry about that – in my belief and worldview, Christ is on the throne and will be the one casting judgement, not you. Thank God for that.

—J of Shadows of WCG comments in Gavin’s Ambassador Watch blog about a hard-core, ultra-conservative Armstrongite’s view on God standards of righteousness and thanks that God alone will be the rightful judge, not a hardline XCGer.


5 thoughts on “Intelligent quote of the day

  1. Hi Felix!

    That whole part about equating the Bible with paganism kind of got to me. I mean, the Armstrongite tradition was always on an anti-pagan witch hunt over a lot of traditions–Christmas trees, Easter eggs, etc. And so it is not surprising to me that some ex-Armstrongites are doing the same thing with the Bible.

  2. Let us consider for a moment the New Life
    Church of God Seventh Day
    . It is one of dozens, perhaps hundreds of independent Sabbatarian groups outside the purview of the Church Corporate, ministering locally to their own people, having their own church building and engaging in outreach programs to their community.

    They’ve been around for twenty years and have associations with other Sabbath keeping groups. A couple of weekends ago, they participated in a “Super Sabbath” gathering in Eugene, Oregon with other Sabbath keeping groups.

    You can’t say that these people are unqualified, either. Their pastor has been a prison chaplain for two decades and conducts a Christ centered leadership group with prisoners within prison. They have outreach programs for both those who are Christians and those who are not within the community.

    New Life has respect for the Jewish calendar and note the beginning of the New Year — and are having a modest celebration at the church April 5th. It also appears that they actually might be Monotheistic.

    Among them is one former WCG member from the Armstrong era. This is mentioned because many people seem to think that unless others accept Armstrongism, they are not just not converted, but they don’t know anything at all worthwhile. Exactly the opposite is the case. People do know and understand and have rejected the blasphemous and idolatrous in favor of being New Testament Christians, instead of being Old Testament Christians.

    What is refreshing about such groups is the extreme lack of guile and hidden agendas. There is more upscale hymns at church services and none of the Dwight David Armstrong plagiarized hymns, none of which seem to celebrate Jesus at all in any way. We know. We looked, and there’s nothing.

    Another great thing is that there is not one word of prophetic events of the end time all culminating in the Great Tribulation with its death, doom, destruction, devastation, and, who knows, maybe diarrhea. They don’t play the trump card for the altar call.

    It’s just a community of believers coming together as they should, learning and growing in a safe family oriented environment. What is so amazing is that the pastors seem to know all of the Old and New Testaments and make seamless references, concentrating on what is important. Now beginning is a sermon series on Redemption. It is not a plastic reproduction of stereotypical Armstrongism. It is instead rich in Spiritual material which would certainly give Armstrongists a run for their money.

    Now Tom Moran holds such things in contempt, even as he holds anyone who declares the Love of God and His Goodness and Greatness, Mercies enduring forever as a “Tkachian”. This psychopathic pharisee is non typical of the true Armstrongist: He admits that he will break the Sabbath if he feels like it, he doesn’t tithe and he is very clear in his idolatry and blasphemy. He’s all about… about… well… playing games comes closest to expressing what he is all about. He is a Biblical illiterate who can’t even quote Scripture right. Worst of all, he is a true hypocrite holding the Suspicious Point of View, demanding others present proof — proof based on authority he accepts [he has a penchant for redefining definitions to suit his whims], while hoping that you’ll accept a lot less from him.

    Moreover, not mentioned in the above posting is the fact that he deliberately lies, slanders and practices libel. He has libeled the blog host, Gavin, and claimed that Gavin has done things he has never done. When Gavin called him on it, he said, “I apologize if I was wrong”, meaning that he didn’t apologize at all, even though he had been caught dead to rights with his pants down.

    Tom Moran is reminiscent of that Proverb of the prostitute who wipes her mouth and claims she’s done nothing wrong.

    If he were alive today, Herbert Armstrong would flat out disfellowship the man as causing divisions and being rebellious.

    So while the poster of the material above may have the “Intelligent Quote of the Day”, so many of us have said the basic same thing for months at a time with absolutely, positively no indication of a hint of repentance in sight.

    It certainly is refreshing to leave an environment of Armstrongism for a more positive one, one which actually has Christian values, and not the one based on the false eschatology of a dead end time Apostle great false prophet.

  3. Tom has deliberately made himself into a lightening rod. Douglas has aquainted us with the nuances of narcissism, as evidenced in the character of HWA, GTA, and their various entrepreneurial franchisees. I suspect that Tom is providing us with an example of another disorder—masochism. That would be in keeping with the basic relationship between the clergy of WCG and the parishioners. Narcissists and masochists.


  4. Masochist may be the right idea, Byker Bob, but the wrong detail, and, as we know, the Devil is in the Details.

    The problem lies in people having faith that they are committed to a venue and that they need to make it work. This occurs in all sorts of places, particularly in the work place.

    When it turns out though, that “Management” is irresponsible, with no accountability at all, doing crazy things, violating all the rules, being complete hypocrites, creating a completely dysfunctional environment, people attempt to cope. They try to do the right thing. They attempt to compensate. Even though they have been betrayed and the environment is totally nutty and makes no sense at all, people will do their best to make things right in a near “the end justifies the means” sort of way.

    People trapped in such places end up doing sillier and sillier things. No one can be truly competent in a dysfunctional environment though: Anyone who is competent will either quit the environment or be ejected from it and anyone who manages to fit in with the nuttiness just isn’t competent.

    Over the past 50 years, we’ve seen normally competent businesses rendering excellent goods and services reduced to totally dysfunctional incompetence only to lumber along with terrible customer service, complaints of every sort, bad products, even dangerous ones, with all competency drained off to the point of embarrassment. Greed has supplanted genuine concern. Thus it is, we see the political candidates we see today. Then there was Enron, Global Crossings and other companies caught with their pants down. There was a grand new world where HP merged with Compaq and managed to go from $72 a share down to $12.

    Religion has taken all sorts of hits from Jim Baker to Jonestown to Heaven’s Gate. Always starting with such promise and ending up on the slag heap.

    In each case, people did try to make it work, but as time goes on, more and more irrational acts against nature have to be taken because the Universe was just not designed for the grandiose plans of narcissists ignoring Universal laws and the challenges of such obstacles of the laws of physics.

    [By the way, it was William Meyers at the Painful Truth who pointed out narcissism for me and it was the American Psychiatric Association which earlier defined the term.]

    These sorts of environments have no where to go, even though they take a lot of time to deteriorate in some cases. In the case of the Worldwide Church of God, entropy was just waiting for Herbert Armstrong to die, for it was only his force of will which held his opinions together.

    So I don’t think it was a case of masochism so much as being trapped in an impersonal slavery serving a narcissistic self-serving demigod. People put their faith in the wrong thing, in the wrong person. It didn’t look so bad at first. In fact, it looked like a good thing, sort of one of those desert towns built for a Western Movie. You come into town with expectations because everything looks just right — it was built to look that way. But you go through the swinging doors of the Old Saloon and there’s nothing there but tumbleweed and wide open spaces. The townfolk are still attempting to make it all work — stocking up the General Store and supporting the local sheriff whose badge is as phony as a three dollar bill.

    Then there are those who have no stake in the game, but sell shares. Like Tom Mahon. He’s selling you on the idea that the Sheriff was real and he kept the law and order. But he doesn’t live there. He’s just selling shares. He doesn’t tithe, keep the Sabbath or go to the Feast of Tabernacles, but by Cracky, he’s willing to put you in the local hoosegow if you don’t, pardner.

    What a con game.

    And speaking of which…

    I don’t suppose y’all know that long before Herbert Armstrong came on the scene, Sabbatarians were keeping the Passover, the Days of Unleavened Bread, Pentecost and the Feast of Tabernacles, did you? Sure ‘nuf pardner. Long before. Miss Kitty told me so down there at them thar services. They hie off to various “camps” each year and have a rip roaring time before the Lord. Singing, prayer, Bible Study, Sermons and family oriented stuff. They eat, they celebrate and they even dance from time to time as prophesied.

    And then comes this stranger into town with that white hat and black heart and tells the simple folk who don’t know better that he invented the shindigs! He wouldn’t know one thing about it if he warn’t a lyin’ plagiarst guy! Mention G. G. Rupert and he changes the subject he does. Predated him he did. And there were lots of folks before Brother Rupert.

    And hey, say: These little Sabbath keeping groups [not the Church of God Seventh Day] have their own chronologists making up the Holyday Calendars too. They do it on their own and don’t let the Jews judge them, just like the Apostle Paul says there in Galations. Ye Haw!

    And praise the Lord.

    Which is about the last thing anyone who is defiant and gamesplaying is about to do.

    So much for the unleavened bread of sincerity!

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